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Umbilicus Ruptures

Anthony RollasonAnthony Rollason Junior Member
edited February 2011 in Vets and Producers
Hi its me from Russia again, another problem i would like some comments from you pig people out there.
We are having a lot of ruptures at about 30days age, no sign at weaning [18days], stocking rates ok, ventilation good , water and feed fine,no human contact at this stge, vaccination [app] starts at 45days, i cannot see any evidence from the farrowing houses, also not one boar is involved.
Any answers.

Anthony Rollason Bsc,Bvm.

Comments

  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    Hi its me from Russia again, another problem i would like some comments from you pig people out there.
    We are having a lot of ruptures at about 30days age, no sign at weaning [18days], stocking rates ok, ventilation good , water and feed fine,no human contact at this stge, vaccination [app] starts at 45days, i cannot see any evidence from the farrowing houses, also not one boar is involved.
    Any answers.

    Anthony Rollason Bsc,Bvm.

    This problem may well stem from what happens in the farrowing house during birth or just after.
    It may be due to people yanking on the umbilical cord(when wet or dry). This is never a very good idea, and what I normally do is leave a good lenght of cord on the piglet and then knot it(but never tight to it body),
    or cut it with a gas tail docker(when wet and never very close to its body), or clip it when its dry(with teeth clippers, but once again never cut short and tight to the piglets body). It is always best to leave a peice nagging. Another problem is when the navel cords are clamped. When they are clamped, that they are clamped to tight to its body and serverly stretched.
    What ever method that is being used, do not tug or stretch the area that the umbilical cord is attached to, otherwise it will serverly weaken it.
    Other problems can be triggered by changes in the type of housing. Is the problem occuring when moving the pigs into a different type of housing?
    Small access holes in veranda housing between the sleeping and dunging area. Make it bigger.
    Low temperatures. Pigs piled on top of each other to keep warm.
    Hope it helps!!!:D
  • BOTAMBOTAM Junior Member
    edited December 2010
    Bonjour,

    for information you can look this link: :)
    http://www.thepigsite.com/diseaseinfo/104/ruptures-hernias
    or this one (just need to translate automatically)
    http://www.3trois3.com/opinion/opinion.php?id=59

    Yes agree with Stevie on all points. Be carefull in farrowing (your employee I mean!).
    Then also check after weaning if piglets are not suckling each other. This will also increase risk of hernia (because of problem also in farrowing!). if they are sukling each other it's sure taht you also have environmental troubels in the room (feed, water, ventilation, adaptation...). To prevent it first, ensure that the feed transistion is well done in farrowing before weaning and if still not good enough add supplement in water (sugar..) for first 2 weeks after weaning...try and check.
    Beside, if you can ID belly rupture early enough, try to fix it, especially on females..
    Anyhow do not said there is no evidence in farrowing or other place...each problem have is solution! So keep reccords of everything and analyze it carefully until it's not resolved.
    Good luck
    JJacques
    www.botam-fr.e-monsite.com
  • Anthony RollasonAnthony Rollason Junior Member
    edited December 2010
    Thanks for all your comments about are problem, many thanks to botam about naval sucking as we have noticed this lately, so we have started using glucose in drinking water, i will let you know of the response, another question if the problem is genetics would we not see more problems in the farrowing houses, keep the comments coming they are most helpful.

    Anthony Rollason Bsc, Bvm.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    :D What we always used to do when doing natural services was ensure that you periodically use the same boar on the same sow for both services. In that way you will know whether he is throwing out genetical defeacts. You don't need to do this too many times to determine whether your boar is "throwing out" genetical problems.
    As to whether all genetical defects are seen in the farrowing house, that is something I can not fully answer as I have never followed it fully through, but if you put a button tag in each of the defects ears when they are in the farrowing house, then you will eventually determine what the answer is to your question as to whether it can be seen "sooner rather that later"!!!
    And as to whether naval suckling causes hernias/ruptures in pigs. This is something I have not seen that often in my illustrious career as a pig farmer and have a funny feeling that what I used to do was put them back on to a weaned sow(foster mum and is not a good practice and wouldn't really recommend it.) if they were doing this in the flat deck. I am interested as to whether Glucose does definetly work, and never realised that that was an option.
    Just goes to show you that you haven't learn't everything. Let me know how you go with it and if it works, as I am a bit sceptical as to whether that is a good solution!!!! I persume it must be???? Wouldn't adding more salt to the diet(normally done against tailbiting) be an option????
    Good luck either way!!!!!:D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    Lets examine this closely Blonde. I never really had that much of a problem with naval suckle(which is what the Thread talks about). As to pigs going backwards at weaning, we always put a cubed drinker in every pen at weaning and nipples were also available at alll times. Each pen was housed buy size, and if a pen was not doing too well after a day or two it would recieve daily milk in its drinker every day. As a desperate measure, if all else failed, I would put it back on a foster sow(which was once in a blue moon). If it was not put back on a foster sow I would put it in a weaner box, with milk and creep to recooperate, mixing creep with water as another means, which also worked. Very rarely lost any pigs after weaning, even in "wind tunnels", so as to using "beeswax abstraction", I will bare it in mind for the future.
    Now Glucose in the farrowing houses I have used in conjuction with salt also, but never for "navel suckling", but if I ever go back to pigs I will bare it in mind as an option!!!!!!!!:D
    Have a very Merry Xmas and hopefully and I will speak to you soon.
    PS. I will stick with beer, rather than beeswax!!!!:D
    :D :D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    I have taken it all on board Blonde, and if I do ever go back to working with pigs and I have a problem then I will try it out!!!!:D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    blonde wrote:
    Great maybe you will let us know what you think when that happens. I guess it wont happen unless you get tired of driving that big truck of yours!!!!

    Unfortuately my decisions aren't solely based on what I wished to do, but are also based on what my wife wishes to do. Thankfully we both decided on the same thing, that inland Australia wasn't for us, and that being coastal was better. Unfortunately there aren't that many GOOD coastal pig jobs, so I will be sticking with trucks for the time being!!!!!!!:D
    It has its advantages, no more late nights and no more week-ends!!!!!!!
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    Wouldn't be going that far at the present moment in time as every where is flooded, so even long distant haulage is a problem.
    And I have the option to work week-ends, but work long hours during the week, so have no desire to do that as well.
    All work and no play makes jack a dull boy!!!!!:D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    Now Blonde, what on Gods earth made you ever think I cart Pigs for a living?????? :D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    No their not, and at least if I did it they would be transported in the correct manner, which means with out the use of a "prodder" , an impliment that is not needed and very mis-used over here and should be banned!!
    The other reason is that I do not hold the correct licence to do this, and of course pigs are mainly based inland anyway, which is where I would need to live, so its a no go!!!:D
    Simple really!!!!:rolleyes:
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited January 2011
    Now this is something we both agree about, except I do shout a bit and do a bit of hand slapping, which I find helps them move along a bit faster and of course use a pig board!!!:D
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited January 2011
    Stevie G wrote:
    Now this is something we both agree about, except I do shout a bit and do a bit of hand slapping, which I find helps them move along a bit faster and of course use a pig board!!!:D
    What is a pig board made of and how big is it? do you slap the pigs or you and does the noise send them down the lane way? Is th is the best way to shift a pig or group of pigs and does it cause stress to the pig? How doe pig people generally shift or move their pigs? do you load pigs on your truck Stevie?
  • BOTAMBOTAM Junior Member
    edited January 2011
    Bonjour,
    Prodder have been ban in France for a long time...and it works!! :)
    As you undertsand basics in pig manners (angle of vision, what they dislike...)you'll fast understand how to move them gently and quietly around your barn and when loading them.
    Also environment influence the way animal move of course, you must be the one to set properly the way for them, if not they always goes where you do not want them to go!! :)
    If trailer are not set properly it became the driver problem to get pigs in by the right way.
    Of course pig board is mandatory each time but if the walkway is 3 meters wide it'll become almost impossible to control your animal alone, if other people or equipment are making noises at the same time you'll be in trouble to manage the animal....
    The pig board size depend on the situation and walkway you have in your barn, most commun pig board are now in plastic(ligther and easier to keep clean) 90 cm* 110 cm to bea easy to move it but it can be smaller when you need to move sow in individual crate for exemple or during weaning process.
    So first, understand pig manners, then adapte the environment and use right tools....In fact be well prepare...even if you move one animal at the time!Practice, practice, practice....
    Have fun.

    Stevie, hope flooded situation is getting better...
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited January 2011
    BOTAM wrote:
    Bonjour,
    Prodder have been ban in France for a long time...and it works!! :)
    As you undertsand basics in pig manners (angle of vision, what they dislike...)you'll fast understand how to move them gently and quietly around your barn and when loading them.
    Also environment influence the way animal move of course, you must be the one to set properly the way for them, if not they always goes where you do not want them to go!! :)
    If trailer are not set properly it became the driver problem to get pigs in by the right way.
    Of course pig board is mandatory each time but if the walkway is 3 meters wide it'll become almost impossible to control your animal alone, if other people or equipment are making noises at the same time you'll be in trouble to manage the animal....
    The pig board size depend on the situation and walkway you have in your barn, most commun pig board are now in plastic(ligther and easier to keep clean) 90 cm* 110 cm to bea easy to move it but it can be smaller when you need to move sow in individual crate for exemple or during weaning process.
    So first, understand pig manners, then adapte the environment and use right tools....In fact be well prepare...even if you move one animal at the time!Practice, practice, practice....
    Have fun.

    Stevie, hope flooded situation is getting better...
    pigs have vision of 350 degrees, so dont need to turn there heads, They can see you walking behind them with ease, not like use.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited January 2011
    Prodders are banned in the UK as well, and should be over here, but thats another story.
    Flooding in the South of Queensland is far worse unfortunately and Brisbane is now effected badly. Just hope it gets better soon for a lot of peoples sake.
    Lucks smiles on us, as I live in North Queenland where thing are a hell of a lot better!!!!
    Thanks for your concern.
  • Anthony RollasonAnthony Rollason Junior Member
    edited January 2011
    I would like to let you pig people know of the progress we have made with this problem, since following the advice from Botam the addition of glucose has certainly reduced the incidence of naval sucking and this in turn has reduced the numbers of umbilicus ruptures in the nursery pens.
    Many thanks for all you comments they were most helpful.
    Regards Anthony Rollason Bsc, Bvm.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited February 2011
    BlueButt wrote:
    What is a pig board made of and how big is it? do you slap the pigs or you and does the noise send them down the lane way? Is th is the best way to shift a pig or group of pigs and does it cause stress to the pig? How doe pig people generally shift or move their pigs? do you load pigs on your truck Stevie?

    Pig boards are made from a thin sheet of ply, all pig that go to market MUST be slapped(black ink used) and the pig board, some hollering, and a slap on their backs with your bare hand usually moves then along!!!!:D
    There is definitely no need for an electric pig prodder!!!!
    Moving pigs in groups is always easier. There are ways to also make the job easier ie give the group your moving alot less feed in the morning than they normally have, then go rattle a bucket of feed at them. It works woners!!!
    Or simply open a pen/paddock gate, walk off and let them move themselves!!!! Each situation needs to be evaluated differently ie if running pigs down a track outdoors and if left too long they may go through the fence, hence making more work, so the feed in the bucket or trailed just the other side of the gate you nee them to go through would be a better option!!!! You can also use a tracor/quad trailer for pig moving outdoors as an other option.
    As to me transporting pigs, I don't pocess the correct licence for starters and have never had any desire to do this, so very unlikely that I will ever do it. Besides most piggeries in OZ are inland, a place I have no desire to live(unless of course someone makes me the right offer!!).
    Iam a "coastal boy" at heart.
    Blonde's the "hill billy not me!!!!!:D :D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited February 2011
    I've never had that much time to be that personal with the pigs as I've always had too much to do. Walking works if you have tracks to walk them up(of which I have had, but not on every unit. Only the ones I've set up myself mainly. Save on fuel and machinery also!!!!). The units I've run have never been any thing less than 300 sows, unlike yourself that only has 100 sows(dig, dig).:D :D
    And what do you mean this week, I always have a playful shot at you Blonde!!!!!!!:D Keeps you on your toes.;)
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited February 2011
    blonde wrote:
    You reckon....dont think so Stevie, I really do do my own thing re gardless of what goes on here on this site. I like to read intensily about what others do and I may or may not take it on board. Some times it is interesting to just set up a pen with someones Idea and have a few weeks at something different. There is always something to learn on here no matter how much or how little experience a person has and that they are happy to share it.... I find it a most satisfying forum.......!!!!! keep up the questions and answers to all those who also enjoy the forum as I do!!!!:)

    And I should bloody well think so Blonde!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
    And I like to tease, which is all it is!!!!!!!!
    Here's a word of wisdom. Two people can set up something the same, but one may only make it work!!!!!!!!(so say Grasshopper :rolleyes:)
    Happy pigging Blonde!!!!!!!:D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited February 2011
    That is definitely not so Blonde!!!!
    Each person may be interested in what they do but due to the lack of knowlege and experience will be the biggest deciding difference.
    I, as ever, beg to differ!!!!!!!;)
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