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teeth clipping

Anthony RollasonAnthony Rollason Junior Member
edited December 2010 in Vets and Producers
Its me again from Russia, just another topic to let me have your valid opinions on.
On one of our 2,500 sow units we decided to stop teeth clipping, so far no problems in farrowing houses , but we have a lot of staph infection in growers from 6kgs, but suprisingly it is cured by tylosin water medication, we see no problem in finisher houses with tail biting, so the question is - do we stop the tail clipping on our entire 20,000 sow complex, let me have your comments
Anthony Rollason.

Comments

  • rootsafricarootsafrica Senior Member
    edited October 2010
    hmm please clarify - you stopped teeth clipping, or you stopped tail docking?
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited October 2010
    Hi there, so you've stopped teeth clipping on one of your units, but have seen an increase staph infections since you have not been doing it.
    The way I read it is that you are saying that there is a direct link between the two, stopping teeth clipping and a problem with an increase in staff. infections????
    The question I would be asking is how much is it costing us to medicate the pigs??? And if you have to do that on the other units, then it will cost you a whole lot more.
    I think it is always best NOT to have inwater medication on farm, and if by just removing the teeth it prevents having to medicate, then it is a whole lot better!!!!!
    How about looking at the way your teeth clipping is done, as you don't necessarily need to cut both the top and bottom teeth out, there is a tool that simply grinds the tip off the top teeth(very tip) which gives you the same result as removing both. Or just simply cut the top teeth out and not the bottom teeth(milk that is!!) and that also give the same result.
    I certainly won't go the "whole Hog"(pardon the pun!!!!) by doing it on every unit, I would trail it on another one first, but having said that if clipping the pigs teeth means not having to use mediction in water then that has got to be "BY FAR BETTER", than to be using mediction, especially long term, as that in itself will create problems!!!
  • HornbechHornbech Junior Member
    edited October 2010
    Dear Anthony Rollason.

    in Denmark we allmost dont clip the teath, and we dont have any problems with it, and when i am coming to new farms in the east eu , Russia Ukraine, then i am advising them to stop, and they too dont have problems.

    the problems is when you clip the teath is that you can make the pig to have pain in the teath all its life and then it can bid the other pigs in the tail, and it can chosse to dont drink so much warter, and then it will not grow.

    so i will say dont clip the teath
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited October 2010
    The question is though, as to whether there is a direct connection between the rise in staph infections and no teeth clipping.
    I have seen on farms an increase in "cuts" on the faces and tails of pigs, more so in weaner accommodation rather than fattening, through play and agression which may allow the "staph" bacteria to cause an increase in the incidence of staph infections.
    This is why I think it maybe be best to trial it on another unit and see what happens first, before trying it on all the units.
  • Anthony RollasonAnthony Rollason Junior Member
    edited October 2010
    Regarding my problem with the staph infection in growers, it seems to be a major problem these days, so we have decided to grind the teeth in the farrowing houses, so far we see a dramatic improvement in the growers, so therefore we have decided to grind all our pglets teeth, its not worth taking the risk, also the high cost of medication was getting out of control, also another fall back was that greasy pig had arisen resulting in alot of sanitary slaughtering, thanks to everyone for their advice.

    Anthony Rollason Bsc,Bvm.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited October 2010
    Stevie - I have a relative who is employed by Bunge or who ever they are nowadays and they have stopped clipping also with no ill effects, so far. I am a bit like you but the guy from Denmark sounds logical. Apart from your fear of staph infections and aggressive cuts, any other reason why we should continue with this.

    Ever farm has different problems. As to what you do depends on your situation. I am all for NOT teeth clipping, iron injecting, and tail docking as it is extra work and at times very unnecessary.
    Anthony Rollason mentions in his original thread that there was an increase in Staphylococcus infections after he discontinued teeth clipping, which indictated to me that there may be a connection between the two.
    One of the main ways that Staphylococcus gains entry into a pigs system is via open wounds/cuts is why I refered to the different teeth clipping can be done as a means of reducing its access, grinding being on of these methods. When doing this, it is only necessary to grind the very tip of the top set. And if this is not done correctly then you are better not doing anything rather than doing it badly.
    And of course if you don't have the means to do this, then the other option would be to only cut the top teeth out instead of both top and bottom, as it saves time and reduces the amount of open wounds(only two instead of four). As with this it is important that the teeth are cut correctly as well, otherwise its best not done atall.
    Other diseases ie "Greasy pig" would be another good reason for teeth clipping to be done, as it w alieviates the probem.
    I have also seen problems with sows outdoors(and sometimes indoor) in hot, summer mouths, where by they would rather lay outside and not suckle there pigs, because it course them too much discomfort, so this would be another occassion where I would do this.
    Another reason would be when a sow has mastitis(of this you should know!) Clipping the piglets teeth would help make her more comfortable and more willing to suckle her pigs.
    So yes Gough, there are other occassions when it would be deemed as necassary to clip piglets teeth!!!!!!!
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited October 2010
    Well you are very odd, so I won't expect anything else either!!!!:D
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited November 2010
    blonde wrote:
    Well Gough i dont teeth clip, iron inject or tail dock either.....I guess one day it will be banned as a general practice and so piggeries will have to get around the problems that may arise from not doing any of the above!

    Grinding the tip would be my option if teeth clipping was banned, but unless it is necessary on that farm I will avoid it if I can. I generally do it indoors, but very rarely on Outdoors, unless I have a problem ie sows not suckling litters in summer.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited November 2010
    Stevie, I thought you might have slung another smart comment my way after that but then again, being the only person in the world that dismissed these procedures outright, anything is possible.

    What you need to do is move with the times and stop living in the dark ages is all any of your comments tell me!!!!!!!! Simply that..........................
  • rhodierhodie Senior Member
    edited November 2010
    I don't give iron injections outdoors, the piglets obtain sufficient from the soil, I do use iron indoors to counter piglet anaemia, in cases of navel bleeding, I will make an exeption and give an iron shot.
    I haven't teeth clipped (other than for Murphy farms NC) for abou 30 years, I select gilts from high lactating sows and choose from 14-16 teat gilts, with plenty of milk and enough teats there is no need to teeth clip, any piglets over teat numbers, or if there is a poor producing teat, the appropriate number of piglets are fostered onto sows with smaller litters, I have no scabby faces in my herd.
    As my piglets are not overcrowded, and either raised outdoors or on deep litter, tail biting has never been an issue, the problems are caused by outdated intensive systems where overcrowding and low standards of animal husbandry are practised.
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited November 2010
    rhodie wrote:
    I don't give iron injections outdoors, the piglets obtain sufficient from the soil, I do use iron indoors to counter piglet anaemia, in cases of navel bleeding, I will make an exeption and give an iron shot.
    I haven't teeth clipped (other than for Murphy farms NC) for abou 30 years, I select gilts from high lactating sows and choose from 14-16 teat gilts, with plenty of milk and enough teats there is no need to teeth clip, any piglets over teat numbers, or if there is a poor producing teat, the appropriate number of piglets are fostered onto sows with smaller litters, I have no scabby faces in my herd.
    As my piglets are not overcrowded, and either raised outdoors or on deep litter, tail biting has never been an issue, the problems are caused by outdated intensive systems where overcrowding and low standards of animal husbandry are practised.

    This Rhodie is exactly what I've been saying all along, but that is very difficult to explain to this bloke, so I really do think that your wasting your time!!!!!!
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited December 2010
    rhodie wrote:
    I don't give iron injections outdoors, the piglets obtain sufficient from the soil, I do use iron indoors to counter piglet anaemia, in cases of navel bleeding, I will make an exeption and give an iron shot.
    I haven't teeth clipped (other than for Murphy farms NC) for abou 30 years, I select gilts from high lactating sows and choose from 14-16 teat gilts, with plenty of milk and enough teats there is no need to teeth clip, any piglets over teat numbers, or if there is a poor producing teat, the appropriate number of piglets are fostered onto sows with smaller litters, I have no scabby faces in my herd.
    As my piglets are not overcrowded, and either raised outdoors or on deep litter, tail biting has never been an issue, the problems are caused by outdated intensive systems where overcrowding and low standards of animal husbandry are practised.

    Something for you to read Gough!!!
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