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Brewers Grains

boyceeboycee Junior Member
edited November 2009 in Pig Tales and Stories
Has any one tried fattening pigs on just brewers grains? I have a source of grains for free that I have been feeding to my piglets but they are growing very slowly, too be expected I supose!
I don't know if they will fatten on them or will I have to suplemet them in some way? I was thinking perhaps silage, being as it is quite cheap, and maybe some extra minerals ( are there mineral licks for pigs on the market)?

Would be gratful for any advice/experience,
cheers

Comments

  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited June 2009
    boycee wrote:
    Has any one tried fattening pigs on just brewers grains? I have a source of grains for free that I have been feeding to my piglets but they are growing very slowly, too be expected I supose!
    I don't know if they will fatten on them or will I have to suplemet them in some way? I was thinking perhaps silage, being as it is quite cheap, and maybe some extra minerals ( are there mineral licks for pigs on the market)?

    Would be gratful for any advice/experience,
    cheers
    I would like to ask Stevie G what he thinks about Brewers Grain and does it fatten pigs. I think he must be an expert and both boycee and me could probably do with expert advice, as this may come in handy for both of us.
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    Hey Bluebutt, the only grain I brew is for home use. But, of course, brewers grain can be feed, but not just on it's own, I would think, as alone, it may not contain enough energy. Just phone a feed supply company, and speak with their nutritionist or a nutritionist, and they will advise you what you need to fed with brewer grains, to make it a good diet to feed to pigs.
    I have looked up brewers grains on the internet, and brewers grains can only be feed as a minor ingredient (230g/kg, as if you feed it any higher, it will affect grow rates). It's ok as a gestation diet, but not as a lactating or stater diet. So yes, you can, but with other ingrediants, and not on it's own, at no more than 230g/kg in 'dry form'. Brewers grains main use is in the feeding of cattle.
    You should not be feeding this diet to piglets, as they do not have the enzymes to digest this diet properly. Only to growers/ fatteners, and at a specific level. Are you feeding wet or dry? To pigs, its only normally feed dry and mixed. Not what you really wish to hear, but those are the facts!
    What you really need is the waste beer, and not the brewers grain. But if your getting it for nothing , it will save you a quarter of your cost of feed, so it's not a bad news.
    Silage is something I've only fed to sows, and it worked well, but likewise, we also fed sow ration as well. Silage you can't feed to piglets, weaners, growers, or fatteners, or lactating sow, so its really a no,no.
    What equipement do you have ?, how many pigs are you trying to fatten? If I were you , I would buy a good starter and weaner diet, and may be a grower diet, and then mix brewers grains in with 'milled' wheat/barley, maize, bone meal, etc., to produce a good finisher diet to slaughter.

    Can you feed straight beer barley to pigs and add your minerals, meals and say tallow/oil/molasses. What sorts of growth rates will you get? Do you have to give the little pigs a different recipe? Or would you be better to give them pellets made up commercially. do the pellets have any antibiotics in them and if so how long is the with holding perion? Will the barley get them to weight in a given time...... say 60 days. After they have been on pellets. What amounts of fish meal do I need to add to get them to say pork.

    By the way what is the weight of pork and what is the weight of bacon. How heavy do the sows have to be and what age to they finish farrowing.

    When should pellets be added to the small pigs pen and when should they be stopped. Is there a weight that is ideal for a change in feed?
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    If you balance the diet correctly, with other ingredients, as well as any other diet. The only thing I don't really know indepth about pigs is the amounts of wheat, barley, bone meal, fish meal, soya, etc, that goes in a pigs diet. You really need to speak to a nutritionist, or hopefully someone else on the site mills and mixes, ie Blonde. Little pigs need starter to start with(to be started at 10 days of age while on sow & until 7-10 days after weaning. Smallest pigs are keep on a few days longer). Weaner ration for 7-10 days, grower next, for approx. 6-8 weeks, then finisher for 8 weeks, until sale. Brewers grain can be feed when growers. Starter has Zinc in it, but antibiotcs are only in the diet if you request it, or your vet recommends it. Holding periods on drugs vary. All we had in our finisher ration, on my last farm, was paylean, and that had a 24 hours withhold on it.
    It all depends on what weight your taking your pigs, as to how long it takes, which also depends on your genetics, your environment and your diet. Pork is 66kg approx.( 145lb), bacon 85kg approx.(187lb). We grew ours to 106kg(233lb). Pork takes 16 weeks, bacon 20 weeks, heavy hog 24 weeks( all these figures are approximates!)
    Gilts start being served at 7 months, and are generally keep to the 7th or 8th litter(2 1/2 years old) Likewise boars the same.
    Outdoors it is difficult to feed starter, unless you give it while the sow is out feeding, or make a special box or area so you can feed it. Your only giving very small amounts at 10 days(small handfull). It's so the piglets start getting used to it before weaning. And as they eat more, give them more. Be care not to waste it, as its generally expensive.(usually comes in 25kg bags). I know Blonde makes her own starter, and will probably give you the ingredient she uses, and the amounts if you ask her.
    I have a friend who's a feed rep. in Canada, and will get more information from him later, so will be back with more!
    Hey blonde.....Stevie G tells me your make your own starter....would you tell me what is in it. we can do it by private message or by email if that makes it easier.....thanks.....bluebutt.
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    blonde wrote:
    contact me through my private messages on this site...blonde
    Gee....thanks blonde...I will chase this up as I would love some help in the feed regime particularly for starter feed.....thanks again.
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    If you balance the diet correctly, with other ingredients, as well as any other diet. The only thing I don't really know indepth about pigs is the amounts of wheat, barley, bone meal, fish meal, soya, etc, that goes in a pigs diet. You really need to speak to a nutritionist, or hopefully someone else on the site mills and mixes, ie Blonde. Little pigs need starter to start with(to be started at 10 days of age while on sow & until 7-10 days after weaning. Smallest pigs are keep on a few days longer). Weaner ration for 7-10 days, grower next, for approx. 6-8 weeks, then finisher for 8 weeks, until sale. Brewers grain can be feed when growers. Starter has Zinc in it, but antibiotcs are only in the diet if you request it, or your vet recommends it. Holding periods on drugs vary. All we had in our finisher ration, on my last farm, was paylean, and that had a 24 hours withhold on it.
    It all depends on what weight your taking your pigs, as to how long it takes, which also depends on your genetics, your environment and your diet. Pork is 66kg approx.( 145lb), bacon 85kg approx.(187lb). We grew ours to 106kg(233lb). Pork takes 16 weeks, bacon 20 weeks, heavy hog 24 weeks( all these figures are approximates!)
    Gilts start being served at 7 months, and are generally keep to the 7th or 8th litter(2 1/2 years old) Likewise boars the same.
    Outdoors it is difficult to feed starter, unless you give it while the sow is out feeding, or make a special box or area so you can feed it. Your only giving very small amounts at 10 days(small handfull). It's so the piglets start getting used to it before weaning. And as they eat more, give them more. Be care not to waste it, as its generally expensive.(usually comes in 25kg bags). I know Blonde makes her own starter, and will probably give you the ingredient she uses, and the amounts if you ask her.
    I have a friend who's a feed rep. in Canada, and will get more information from him later, so will be back with more!
    I would also be interested in what your rep. in Canada has to say about feeds and what is added as well. I have as yet not heard from Blonde....I guess she must be really busy
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    Stater feed is generally milk powder based, fish meal, lupins, peas maybe, and ground wheat. I know Blonde doesn't use milk, and know what she's said what she use's, but I, along with others, would like to see again, what she use's in all her diets. Milled & mixed on the last piggery, but I never got the chance to be involved, which was a shame, so Iam interested in learning more.
    Then if you have not done much in the way of milling and mixing, what did you do on the farms you worked on. Surely understanding feed is half the battle of growing pigs, the rest is done by the pigs themselves. Ensuring water is good and the availability is there is also important.
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    Always ordered the food ready made, from a feed company. When working on large piggeries, you have very little to do with what goes into feed. That is all done for you. Wouldn't get very far without water, and thats provided by nipple drinker, which you check daily. Diets are made up by a nutritionist, in consultation with owners/vets, and maybe managers, but I've never had to do it. Milled and mixed on my very first piggery in 1979, never got involve again after that.
    Can you use a trough to water your pig with. Or do you have to use "nipple drinkers"? Where do you get them. Are there a variation in them. What do you do for small piglets?
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    What is DBG? can you explain please?
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    If you balance the diet correctly, with other ingredients, as well as any other diet. The only thing I don't really know indepth about pigs is the amounts of wheat, barley, bone meal, fish meal, soya, etc, that goes in a pigs diet. You really need to speak to a nutritionist, or hopefully someone else on the site mills and mixes, ie Blonde. Little pigs need starter to start with(to be started at 10 days of age while on sow & until 7-10 days after weaning. Smallest pigs are keep on a few days longer). Weaner ration for 7-10 days, grower next, for approx. 6-8 weeks, then finisher for 8 weeks, until sale. Brewers grain can be feed when growers. Starter has Zinc in it, but antibiotcs are only in the diet if you request it, or your vet recommends it. Holding periods on drugs vary. All we had in our finisher ration, on my last farm, was paylean, and that had a 24 hours withhold on it.
    It all depends on what weight your taking your pigs, as to how long it takes, which also depends on your genetics, your environment and your diet. Pork is 66kg approx.( 145lb), bacon 85kg approx.(187lb). We grew ours to 106kg(233lb). Pork takes 16 weeks, bacon 20 weeks, heavy hog 24 weeks( all these figures are approximates!)
    Gilts start being served at 7 months, and are generally keep to the 7th or 8th litter(2 1/2 years old) Likewise boars the same.
    Outdoors it is difficult to feed starter, unless you give it while the sow is out feeding, or make a special box or area so you can feed it. Your only giving very small amounts at 10 days(small handfull). It's so the piglets start getting used to it before weaning. And as they eat more, give them more. Be care not to waste it, as its generally expensive.(usually comes in 25kg bags). I know Blonde makes her own starter, and will probably give you the ingredient she uses, and the amounts if you ask her.
    I have a friend who's a feed rep. in Canada, and will get more information from him later, so will be back with more!
    What is the difference between malting barley and feed barley. Is the protein level the same or is it different. Is grain the carrier for the protein provided by the meals or is it part of the diet itself that helps the pigs to push forward with their growth. What sorts of gains in weight could be expected. Does this depend on the type of pig, the conditions and the type of feed being fed?:confused:
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    A trough is good for all ages. Farm supply place. Plenty of variation. Trough or nipple. Each have good and bad points. Small pigs have cube drinkers as well. Need my sleep, so Guten Nacht!
    What are cube drinkers. I dont seem to know what these are.....are they a box with a lid on or what?:confused:
  • edited July 2009
    BlueButt wrote:
    Hey blonde.....Stevie G tells me your make your own starter....would you tell me what is in it. we can do it by private message or by email if that makes it easier.....thanks.....bluebutt.


    Please do keep it on the site as I am very interesed in this topic too.
  • edited July 2009
    BlueButt wrote:
    Can you use a trough to water your pig with. Or do you have to use "nipple drinkers"? Where do you get them. Are there a variation in them. What do you do for small piglets?

    I use a trough with auto to up [in a free range environment]. They tend to try to knock it about a bit so I have recently bought a much larger trough, much heavier when filled with water and quite deep sides that I can sink 4 - 6 inches into the ground. It also has a stronger lid that protects the ball valve much better than previous [and expensive] versions. This seems to be working.

    Can this "nipple"system be used in a free range environment - I can see it operating well indoors!
  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited July 2009
    Stevie G wrote:
    If you balance the diet correctly, with other ingredients, as well as any other diet. The only thing I don't really know indepth about pigs is the amounts of wheat, barley, bone meal, fish meal, soya, etc, that goes in a pigs diet. You really need to speak to a nutritionist, or hopefully someone else on the site mills and mixes, ie Blonde. Little pigs need starter to start with(to be started at 10 days of age while on sow & until 7-10 days after weaning. Smallest pigs are keep on a few days longer). Weaner ration for 7-10 days, grower next, for approx. 6-8 weeks, then finisher for 8 weeks, until sale. Brewers grain can be feed when growers. Starter has Zinc in it, but antibiotcs are only in the diet if you request it, or your vet recommends it. Holding periods on drugs vary. All we had in our finisher ration, on my last farm, was paylean, and that had a 24 hours withhold on it.
    It all depends on what weight your taking your pigs, as to how long it takes, which also depends on your genetics, your environment and your diet. Pork is 66kg approx.( 145lb), bacon 85kg approx.(187lb). We grew ours to 106kg(233lb). Pork takes 16 weeks, bacon 20 weeks, heavy hog 24 weeks( all these figures are approximates!)
    Gilts start being served at 7 months, and are generally keep to the 7th or 8th litter(2 1/2 years old) Likewise boars the same.
    Outdoors it is difficult to feed starter, unless you give it while the sow is out feeding, or make a special box or area so you can feed it. Your only giving very small amounts at 10 days(small handfull). It's so the piglets start getting used to it before weaning. And as they eat more, give them more. Be care not to waste it, as its generally expensive.(usually comes in 25kg bags). I know Blonde makes her own starter, and will probably give you the ingredient she uses, and the amounts if you ask her.
    I have a friend who's a feed rep. in Canada, and will get more information from him later, so will be back with more!
    Have you manage to find out any information from your rep. in Canada....I am still interested in knowing more about this subject, as this is the lifeline of the pigs life what is in his stomach to make him grow.
  • boyceeboycee Junior Member
    edited September 2009
    I have since started adding malt colmes ( a by product from the malting procces) to the ration and the results have been very encouraging. Growth has improved dramaticaly. Having spoken to a few people i have been advised that adding some cattle minerals to the mix or to the drinking trough will provide extra benefits aswell. Having said that, cattle minerals have been recomended due to the relative ease of getting hold of them as opposed to a specialist pig mineral.
    I have been told that the copper in these minerals will be especially helpful??

    I am also going to be feeding the brewers grains to cattle, wrong site I know, but does anybody know much about this?
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  • BlueButtBlueButt Senior Member
    edited November 2009
    Yes I would be interested in the correct pig diets. I am considering expanding and that is no good with out the correct diet. I have been browsing the site now for weeks and it seems to me that the diet is very important along with the vaccinations that are required to keep the pigs healthy. Every body has their own ideas but at the end of the day their is only one market and the pigs must come through the growth stage healthy and be suitable for human consumption!
  • Stevie GStevie G Super Moderator
    edited November 2009
    What gives Bluebutt? Buying more sows? What ingredients do you have available? This determines your diets. The general rule for diets is so. For young pigs you need high quality proteins which means using Fishmeal, wheat , Barley, Soybean meal, Lupins, peas, meat and bone meal,etc. Most feed companies use Milk powder/whey in creep, and of course every thing needs to be ground through a hammer mill.
    Typical Prestarter diet contains 795lb Ground corn, 500lb soybean meal,Oat groats 200lb, Dried whey 400lb, Fat 40lb, Calcium Carbonate 15lb, Dicalcium phosphate 30lb, sail 5lb, Vit. and selenium premix 5lb, Trace mineral premix.
    Corn and Soya beanmeal are are the main ingrdients after that. Blonde and Nicksdigs can give you help and I will be back next weekend with more.
    Tim, the Canandian Rep. has moved back to the UK and I haven't heard any more from him since, so that avenue is on hold at present.
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