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The British Pet Pig Society Launches This Weekend

edited May 2011 in "Off Your Chest"
A Society dedicated to Pet Pigs & responsible Pig Keeping - no matter how big or how small they are! Run by EXPERTS on a totally unbiased basis with sections to include health, wellbeing and legislation for all pig lovers. Experts to include Vets & Pig Professionals. Sections will include - Ask The Vet, Raising Awareness, Responsible Pig Keeping, Rules & Regulations, Pet Pig Owners, Classifieds and Forums. We are looking for people to become involved especially if you are in the industry or have years of Pig keeping experience to offer your expertise and knowledge to peoples questions & enquiries.


www.britishpetpigsociety.co.uk
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Comments

  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I understand that the new website The British Pet Pig Society has now lost two of its experts, both highly thought of in their field,due to conflicting views about the breeding and management of micro pigs with the owners of the site.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately the BPPS has infact had trouble almost immediately after being launched. My wife has set this up, purely and completely because of her love of pigs, and her commitment to seeing them well looked after and maintained.

    She is not a breeder, nor is she connected to a breeder, or anything to do with LPF in any way shape or form, however STILL a small selection of idiotic, jealous women have caused a problem for her.

    I sincerely hope that she puts her disappointment aside, and continues with this worthy cause, however if these idiotic, jealous women continue to cause her a problem, then I can see it being a short lived venture.

    Facebook has caused the main issue, and I am livid that her efforts are being smashed, purely because people unaffiliated with the project are 'claiming' to be involved, and thus causing a nuissance.

    Bloody livid!!!
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    You claim to be a non profit organisation, does that mean you intend to register with the charities commission. £20 is alot of money for people to join for advice, where is that money going.

    According to conversations on the breeders facebook page, I would say there was a very good connection between your wife and the breeder in question. Prior to the BPPS being set up, the link took you straight to the breeders page, why is this, are you saying the breeder is lying.
  • piggylou Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    Excuse me if I'm wrong! but if LPF has nothing to do with it why have they started this thread, if your wife, Matthew has set it up? It's a bit confusing?
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I agree Piggylou, it seems a few porkies are being told about this site and who started it. I would be very careful about parting with your money. £20 is an awful lot of money for advice, when you can go on other pig forums and ask questions and get advice FREE in return.
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    A recent post by Matthew Firth, an admin for the new BPPS website catogorically denies that the new BPPS site has any connection whatsoever with LPF.
    She is not a breeder, nor is she connected to a breeder, or anything to do with LPF in any way shape or form, however STILL a small selection of idiotic, jealous women have caused a problem for her.



    An article on Jane Croft and Little Pig Farm (LPF) appeared in the East Anglian Daily newspaper on the 18th of June which contained the following paragraph.

    Ms Croft has also become an ambassador for safe pig-keeping. She has set up the British Pet Pigs Society to give people information about what their responsibilities are when they keep pigs in the home.

    I think it is fair to say that the public should be told the truth before paying their £20.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    I assume 'border' is Wendy Scudamore or a friend of?

    Yes, in response to your question - and for the avoidance of doubt, any claim that LPF set up, or is a part of the BPPS is false; for the record!
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    I have no idea!!!
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I am not Wendy Scudamore, are you saying then the breeder is lying???? . Really sorry matthew but this is in the newspaper, why would the breeder advertise it on her website, start this thread and claim in our local newspaper if she has nothing to do with it. Can the breeder confirm that they have nothing to do with the BPPS and if that is so, why did they start this thread, and advertise it in the newspaper. What is going on here??????
  • piggylou Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    Hmm, dont' think I will part with £20 just yet then, I am really confused, Matthew why was this thread started by lpf then?
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I feel then if the breeder has nothing to do with the founding of the BPPS website, the journalist who carried out the story needs to be informed, so he can make a correction in the newspaper, and you should if this is the case, actually print on your website that the breeder has nothing whatsoever to do with the site and all comments from the breeder to this effect should be ignored.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    I'm not going to be drawn into calling people liars...
    ...and I'm not interested in getting involved in causing trouble for people either.

    My posts above are all clear enough without further elaboration, so if you need quotes for the press, if that's your game, then use those!

    It is such a shame that a genuine effort to do some good has been pounced on by a certain group of people, and my advice to Heidi is to stop wasting her time...
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    Neither am I Matthew looking to call people liars, however you have a duty to explain exactly what is going on when you are charging people £20 to join. People have a right to know where their money is going and to whom and they need to know they can trust the society. This will only happen if you make it clear why the breeder is saying the total opposite to you. I am certainly not looking for quotes, the quote I have put in the above post came from the breeder in a recent newspaper article, those were her words not mine.

    You are right in that it was a good idea, so make everything clear and inform people what is going on so you can carry on with your good work. Otherwise you have something which is quite important unanswered for whatever reason, and people are more likely not to join because of this.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    Please see my response to your private message to me - purely to save me typing it all again!

    Thanks.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    For clarification:

    1. Jane Croft is neither founder nor in any way involved in the management of bpps.

    2. the £20 fee is actually still being discussed, thus membership apps are not yet being accepted formally. however the intention was that it would include a substantial info pack, enamel badge, membership card etc... A bit like (without trying to compare entities) the sort of thing you get for joining the RSPB...

    3. There are openings for people genuinely interested in coming on board to get involved in its management to do so. As stated, my wife is not looking to 'make' out of this! Quite the opposite... I'll actually probably lose out, as I'll no doubt be paying to keep/feed the rescued pigs!!!

    Any genuine queries - please do fire them over...
    ...however PLEASE don't use this as a medium for discussions about the good or bad of unrelated breeders!
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I think your intentions are very good Matthew, I really do and I hope everything works out. If done properly I think it is what is needed. However, and I do not say this out of spite or jealousy or whatever you think, you need to put a stop to the breeder advertising she has founded it and cut any connection that you may or may not have. Because of the connection and the bad name that this breeder has, you have already lost two experts, this connection will not go away until you actively put a stop to it. Now I don't know what is going on behind the scenes about this, but if you and Heidi want it to work, you must see that you need to sort this. I do not know the reason you are being so diplomatic and don't want to know, but I do know that if I was you and a breeder was destroying the obvious work that has gone into this site, then I would be mad and I wouldn't be as polite as you are being on the forums. I hope you get it sorted.
  • Stevie G Super Moderator
    edited June 2010
    matthew firth said:
    That is mighty cunning(or should I say conning) of LPF to do what she has done, as I was under the impression that she was involved in it my self. If I get that impression then so will others, and what is the problem as a Breeder with LPF? Will someone enlighten me. Obviously I know better now, but for the uneducated it will be different.
    Why is this site not trying to get sponsership from companies to fund the site rather than charging people 20 pounds? Would that not be a better idea? And why would some one like me, a commercial pig breeder for over 30 years, join your site, when I can do it for free here?
  • porky Member
    edited June 2010
    Just for the sake of clarity - this IS wendy scudamore

    never mind the sob story for the people who have set up this site - who ever they may be or may not be -
    how about some sympathy for the hundreds and hundreds of pigs being bred and sold by a breeder whose reputation is so bad that the mention of her name makes anyone with any integrity withdraw their support from a website associated with her?

    Stevie G - its a long story but this is the breeder we have been moaning about for months who breeds pigs and sells them as 'micro' which then grow into 'maxo', is under investigation by authorities for illegal movements, illegal disposal of dead pigs, etc etc
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I personally think there is something very dodgy going on with this site. I agree stevie, if you thought that lpf was involved, so would others. No one is actually answering our questions about why the breeder is saying she is involved, yet Matthew is saying catagorically she isn't. In all honesty matthew, look at it from our point of view. As fast as you are denying she is involved, she is at the same rate saying she is. You are doing the site no favours, we are not harming your business, you are doing a very good job of it yourself by not explaining what is going on. And for any pig owners like stevie says, there are numerous free forums you can go on and ask the same questions.
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    Stevie, I would have thought with 30 years experience, you don't need help:). I bet you have more knowledge in your little finger than I have learnt in 10 years. Out of interest, what breed do you keep
  • Stevie G Super Moderator
    edited June 2010
    border said:
    Stevie, I would have thought with 30 years experience, you don't need help:). I bet you have more knowledge in your little finger than I have learnt in 10 years. Out of interest, what breed do you keep
    Was keeping Large White/Landrace/Duroc crosses, but I don't actually work with pigs any more, so this gives me my interest, until may be one day I return to them. What would interest me is breeding miniature pigs over here in Australia, rather than breeding commercial, whch is why I have an in bit of an interest. And even after 30 years there is still new things to learn.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    Ah... 'border' is Linda MacDonald then.

    I'll leave you guys to it on here...
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    No my name is not Linda Macdonald, spelt wrong and surname is wrong Matthew. Keep guessing and one day you will get it right. In any case whoever I am is irrelevant. We are portrayed as jealous women who are someone going to take over with the micro business. It has been said that the swedish pigs are going to be flooding the uk market. I can't see that ever happening, because I believe this micro trade is running its course. Unfortunately the very breeders who are trying to make their millions from charging over a thousand pounds for a pig are hastening its end. The rubbish that is churned out is unbelievable and very sad. I don't know of one breeder who knows about genetics, they think by breeding a runty pig to another runty pig, they will end up with a micro pig. Some of them have only been in the business for a year. They don't see any problem with selling an entire boar as a house pet pig, believing that somehow micro pig boars are different from "real" pigs. I truly believe with this irresponsible attitude, one day a child will be injured. From what I see there is no sound knowledge of basic pig keeping and their needs. Consequently if they don't have the knowledge they can't pass it on to people with even less knowledge then them. This website Matthew is a wonderful idea, but like I have said in a previous post, you have to come clean and if this happens I for one will support it if there is absolutely no connection with a certain breeder.
  • Stevie G Super Moderator
    edited June 2010
    border said:
    No my name is not Linda Macdonald, spelt wrong and surname is wrong Matthew. Keep guessing and one day you will get it right.
    Surely not all micro pig farmers are the same. Minature and a miocro pig are more or less one of the same are they not??? If they are selling a minature or micro pig then thats all they should be selling, but I hear that the problem is not so, that so called micro pigs are commercial pigs, so in affect it is a con. Mr Matthew surely there ought to be a register on your webb so that people know where they can get the genuine article. This will put a stop to all this rubbish as to whether a pig is the proper article. You haven't said why you are not getting sponsership for you webb either rather than charging for the privilege????? Sponsership has got to be the way to go. Get the reputable breeders to sponser you and also get donations, otherwise people are going to be put off comimg on site. If some one like you Matthew and your wife are genuine, and are doing the right thing then I am right behind you, as will be other other people, so surely who Border is is irrelevant. Do photos of what your farm is about and put it on site and also let people come on farm and look around.
    What I need to know Matthew is what your wife is doing???? Is she rescuing "micro" pigs from buyers or is she rescuing commercial pigs. If she is rescuing "micro" pigs, why not find people who are looking for micro pigs and then resell them to good homes as a means of making an income. How about getting a section on this webb to advertise what you do, rather than setting up another webb. Micro pig buyers come on this site, venting their anger over bad micro breeders, so use this webb to gather support.
    As to whether micro pigs are being well looked after in the UK, I wouldn't know, but there would be no excuse as there charging lots of money. Certainly Commercial Breeder are mostly doing the right thing in comparison to other countries and that includes OZ, who still have stalls. This I can say from experience as I lived and worked with pigs in the UK for 25 years(Been here 5 years).
    And back to Border, was in WA, now move to Cairns, as its warmer all the year round. Where abouts were you and what are you doing in the UK now?
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    I was in the Gascoyne Junction area on first a sheep station called Gifford Creek, then a cattle station just outside Broome called Meda. Loved it. It changed me as a person, and give me skills not only life skills but pratical skills as well which I still use to this day. Now I am a pig farmer, and pig consultant.

    In reply to what you were saying about micros stevie and this is only my opinion. I wouldn't say they come from commerical breeds, more traditional like the Gloucester Old Spot, Tamworth etc. They also have pot belly in them and also sometimes Kune Kune. There are definately some breeders who are trying to do the right thing, but in my opinion, they can never get away from the poor stock they are starting with. Even the better breeders don't really have an idea what constitutes a good pig. They are all concerned with breeding smaller and smaller, and because of this, conformation and movement is lost. So you may be ending up with a smallish pig, cute to begin with at the crucial time when they are being sold, but then as they grow and get older, the irresponsible breeding shows through, bad movement, heads to big for their body, bodies too big for their head. Unfortunately most of the breeders in the Uk are new at this so either don't know how to recify this or just don't seem to notice that this is what is happening.

    And again in my opinion, there is no genuine micro/mini pig in the UK. I haven't yet seen a fully grown micro pig that is small. Breeders say they have them but don't actually post photos.
  • Stevie G Super Moderator
    edited June 2010
    border said:
    I personally think there is something very dodgy going on with this site. I agree stevie, if you thought that lpf was involved, so would others. No one is actually answering our questions about why the breeder is saying she is involved, yet Matthew is saying catagorically she isn't. In all honesty matthew, look at it from our point of view. As fast as you are denying she is involved, she is at the same rate saying she is. You are doing the site no favours, we are not harming your business, you are doing a very good job of it yourself by not explaining what is going on. And for any pig owners like stevie says, there are numerous free forums you can go on and ask the same questions.
    I had presume that LPF had set up this site as a means of making it clear that what is sold on her farm was tha genuine article, and not as others have been saying on this site, that that is not the case. She set alot of people threatening emails, saying that she wanted names and address of the people who have been 'slatting' her, so she could take further action against them, so I backed off, as did others. Matthew, if she is unreputable, and you are in anyway connected to her, it will do yourself ABSOLUTELY no favours! I would be getting intouch with her and threating to take her to court, as she is trying to incinuate that she is connected to your webb site. This for you is definitely not a good thing, and I have taken your word as to her connection, but others aren't going to know this, so be very, very, very aware, to the fact that it will do you no good in the end if people end up believing it.
  • border Member
    edited June 2010
    Stevie, it is a shame you backed off. The breeder will not take anyone to court, especially us. She knows if she did everything would come out in the open and that would be the end as everything we say we have got evidence. She also knows that Animal Health and Trading Standards have the evidence to back us up. Despite what she threatens, she has not taken one person to court. It is a way of intimadating those people to keep their mouth shut. Unfortunately for her, we don't take any notice.
  • matthew firth Junior Member
    edited June 2010
    Border; I don't know how many times I need to say it, but the bpps is categorically NOT linked with LPF...
    ...I am frustrated that I need to keep saying this, however you keep asking me to prove it!!!

    How do you prove a negative? Please tell me what proof would satisfy you, whoever you may or may not be, and I'll get it for you.

    And if you ARE indeed genuine in offering support for what is a genuinely independent attempt at promoting the 'rights' and doing away with the 'wrongs' of pets as pigs, then we would very much welcome that help.

    If however all you're really intent on is bringing down an unrelated third party, then best of luck, but we're not interested - if I'm honest, I think Wendy's got it covered anyway from what we read on the forums...

    Hope you're genuine, and hope to hear from you.

    And genuinely; if there is some proof I can offer you of our independence, then let me know and I'll get it out on the website!!!
  • Stevie G Super Moderator
    edited June 2010
    border said:
    Stevie, it is a shame you backed off. The breeder will not take anyone to court, especially us. She knows if she did everything would come out in the open and that would be the end as everything we say we have got evidence. She also knows that Animal Health and Trading Standards have the evidence to back us up. Despite what she threatens, she has not taken one person to court. It is a way of intimadating those people to keep their mouth shut. Unfortunately for her, we don't take any notice.
    What she was saying is that jealous people are trying to ruin her business? Am I to presume that is not the case, and what evidence do you really have????
    She also had someone on here backing up her business, and saying all she was doing was good, which is why I backed off. Being this far away, I can't really know the real truth, but its not me that suffers but others. Bring it on daddyo, or should that be LPF. I must once again visit her site and find out what she says to it all.

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